A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas(nippon.com)
252 points by cainxinth 12 hours ago | 181 comments
- cthalupa 12 hours agoInteresting. Some of these are big deals (particularly the ones mentioned as important) but others I have seen Japanese people in Tokyo do quite consistently. Soroebashi - not on the table, but I've seen chopsticks aligned by pushing them against the plate hundreds of time. I've also seen them used to stir miso soup, etc. plenty.
Others I don't know that I would have much of an inclination to do and haven't seen but am not sure if it's because it really is a faux pas or just because no one else really tends to do it either.
[-]- cmcaleer 8 hours agoI think if you were to do an Osaka version of this, the list would be limited to maybe 4 of these (licking, chopsticks upright in rice, passing between chopsticks, and pointing esp. toward a senior would be taboo).
Whereas when I had a date with a girl from Kyoto, one of the first things that happened when we went to eat was she had to stop me from picking up my chopsticks impolitely and show me the proper way of doing it.
Suffice it to say my Osaka-learned table manners and speech patterns meant there was no second date.
[-]- Xixi 6 hours agoI'm not sure I'd put it down entirely to Osaka versus Kyoto. My impression is that these things often have at least as much to do with upbringing, formality, and social background as with region.
I don't know where you're from, so apologies if this is an unfair assumption, but in countries like the US or Australia people often seem less attuned to social class, whereas in places like the UK, France, and indeed Japan, those distinctions can carry more weight, even if they almost always go unspoken.
[-]- markdown 6 hours agoAgreed. Was always taught to never put elbows on the table, but as an adult I see people do it everywhere.[-]
- rglullis 2 hours agoSeeing people fail to meet a standard does not mean that the standard does not exist.[-]
- scheme271 54 minutes agoI think the deeper question is whose standards and why should we consider them the standard?[-]
- AdamN 3 minutes agoSome of them of course are invented whole cloth. British Received Pronunciation was invented and needs to be learned and is the standard of the upper class. It's neither right nor wrong but it's there to differentiate.
- rglullis 29 minutes agoThat's the thing with standards: there are so many of them to choose from.
You don't have to follow them, but you do you should be ready to accept the consequences of your choice.
- rkomorn 2 hours agoWhen it comes to manners, I'd say seeing enough people fail to meet a standard means it's not a standard, at least.
- GuestFAUniverse 3 hours agoYeah, as if we still have loose table tops, like in medieval times.
- derefr 1 hour agoI wonder what Ms. Kyoto would tell me to do to properly pick up my chopsticks, given that I’m left-handed, and yet it is apparently a faux pas to lay down the chopsticks pointing to the right.[-]
- zeristor 27 minutes agoI’m thinking this would be interesting inspiration for a song by the band Pulp.
Jarvis Cocker-san.
- gregjw 6 hours agoI live in Osaka (only lived here a year) and it is fascinating the vibe change between Osaka and Kyoto.
- cthalupa 7 hours agoIt's always wild to me when I hear about how different the culture is between Osaka and Kyoto when they're so close.[-]
- cmcaleer 7 hours agoI remember being blown away when I was in a Kyoto Familymart after a few months of living in Osaka after they handed me my fried chicken very delicately with both hands like it was a business card!
I guess that’s the cultural divide that occurs when one community is fishing and trading while the other does, like, competitive perfumed calligraphy or whatever.
[-]- Brian_K_White 1 hour agoClearly they also cook and serve fried chicken.
- vpribish 7 hours agocompetitive perfumed calligraphic etiquette -- of your grandfathers!
- pndy 9 hours agoThere's equally complex dining and utensils etiquette in Western culture but it's largely omitted (or even unknown) on daily basis.[-]
- econ 4 hours agoI use to have a routine with a friend where we paid close attention to the table manners of his wealthy upper class relatives. Then when they did something wrong we would point it out loudly as if it was the end of the world. Best was 3+ mistakes in a row. Bonus points if you can point out the mistake and add something like we are not in Belgium!
- chasil 8 hours agoThere is a wiki.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_utensil_etiquette
Edit: The wiki on chopsticks has an etiquette section broken down by country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopsticks#Chopstick_customs,_...
[-]- 3eb7988a1663 8 hours ago
Nuts. Apparently I have been a German spy all this time. I don't have time to waste swapping a fork around.The difference between the American and European styles has been used as plot point in fictional works, including the 1946 film O.S.S. and the 2014 series Turn: Washington's Spies.[5] In both works, using the wrong fork etiquette threatens to expose undercover agents.[-]- mrkandel 51 minutes agoTarantino has a bit about it in inglorious bastards.
- laughing_man 7 hours agoYes! Hardly anyone knows it all, and even people who know the basics adjust their behavior based on the situation. Eating out with your high school buddies requires a different level of observance than the dinner at which your girlfriend is introducing you to her parents.
- maxerickson 7 hours agoThat's not really a coherent statement.
If people don't even know it, it's not part of the culture.
[-]- shermantanktop 7 hours agoWho are the “people” that you are referring to?
This makes total sense to me. There is no monolithic “culture”— there are multiple related cultures, differing little in essence but differing greatly in the details. And each individual is usually only partially ignorant anyway.
Culture changes, too, and asymmetrically. So the “done thing” may be done be very few anymore.
[-]- maxerickson 6 hours agoI guess I was talking about the people that don't know about the culture you guys say they are part of.
- anal_reactor 3 hours agoI feel like there was a brief period when middle class came to existence and started mimicking customs of the upper class, which were very complicated because the upper class was mostly bored and had invented this shit to kill the time. Then two things happened:
1. Upper class stopped being formal because formality stopped being a signal of upper class.
2. Middle class stopped having social gatherings in general.
So, like, "it is a part of the culture" in the same sense as traditional outfits are a part of the culture - most people have very vague awareness, nobody really cares.
- rvba 37 minutes agoIr is also topic od relevance.
Poland has honorifics that are probably on par to those in Japan, but since the language is difficult to learn and frankly speaking nobody cares about Poland, barely anyone even knows this.
Also lots of corporations prefer "american style" approach of just refering by name (even to the CEO), so this dissapears.
Probably could write few pages about this, but nobody would care to read.
- tmatsuzaki 6 hours agoI’m Japanese, but honestly, I don’t pay much attention to it. My parents used to get on me about it when I was a kid, but I still do it sometimes.[-]
- Gigachad 6 hours agoHalf of this list feels about as important as remembering the order of spoons on a table. Something that probably meant a lot 100 years ago but is mostly forgotten now.
- frereubu 11 hours agoI've seen those too. I was going to say that I've seen people put the bowl to their mouth and shovel food in with chopsticks, but now that I come to think about it that might well actually be from the series Tokyo Diner and Takeshi Kitano films, and may be deliberately uncouth characterisations...[-]
- wahnfrieden 10 hours agoBringing the bowl close to your mouth and picking food up from it is proper. Pushing it from the bowl into your mouth is impolite but common.[-]
- derefr 1 hour agoSo what are you expected to do with the last few sauce-soaked grains of rice that would at best be able to be plucked grain by grain from the bowl, and even then would likely slip from between the tips of the chopsticks? Just leave them in the bowl?[-]
- anotheryou 4 minutes agoI vaguely remember something about not finishing completely to acknowledge there was enough
- Umofomia 9 hours agoI'm under the impression this is a Chinese vs. Japanese difference. Shoveling food into your mouth is perfectly acceptable in Chinese etiquette but discouraged in Japanese. Accordingly the Japanese cook their rice to clump together so it's easier to pick up using your chopsticks so that you don't have to resort to shoveling.[-]
- JKCalhoun 9 hours agoI thought it was okay to shovel noodles, but have not heard it was okay for rice.
- wahnfrieden 12 hours agoit's like western etiquette: upper class, fine dining traditional practices are not what you'll see everyday even among polite society. the spectrum of behaviors will also depend on one's company.[-]
- fc417fc802 9 hours agoI assume this must be the case here because I'm familiar with a lot of different etiquette contexts in the US and I have the impression that Japan has far more of that sort of thing than we do. Off the top of my head there are (at minimum) the way we were expected to eat in front of my grandparents, a more "regular" dinner with the extended family, a small gathering at a tex mex joint or chain restaurant or whatever, a fast food joint, and whatever slovenly things I do while sitting on my couch in private.
Anyone from a particularly wealthy family can probably add an additional couple contexts on the high end. Every single one of those situations has slightly different "rules" for what's acceptable.
[-]- throwup238 9 hours agoAnd then there’s my favorite, the southern seafood boil etiquette.
- wahnfrieden 5 hours agoWe have a lot of dining etiquette too if you look into it. But it’s mostly forgotten and irrelevant high class behavior.
- nvader 2 hours agoYep. Two words:
_grape scissors_
[-]- defrost 2 hours agoLook here, Bridgerton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNegQyn-4N8
- rayiner 6 hours agoYou also see plenty of americans put their elbows on the table.[-]
- RHSeeger 5 hours agoThe original reasons for not putting your elbows on the table (limited space, as well as some others) just don't apply anymore. There's no reason _not_ to put your elbows on the table other than "that's how it's always been done". As such, at least in my opinion, the rule no longer applies.[-]
- testaccount28 5 hours agosailors eat with their elbows on the table, to keep their fare from sliding as the boat rocks. don't look poor!
- jeffbee 11 hours agoYeah? How are you supposed to line up the sticks? And stir the soup? I think the "Mawashibashi" faux pas is to whip the soup like a madman, or to aimlessly swish it, and the translated listicle doesn't convey that.[-]
- 0x3f 11 hours agoYou could surreptitiously agitate the soup as you pull out the solid contents.
- wahnfrieden 10 hours agoLine them up by using your hands. It’s simple…
If you must mix soup, there is a spoon, or you simply bring it to your lips and it will mix as you tilt and sip from it.
- fumeux_fume 6 hours agoMy heart is lightened to learn inserting the chopsticks into your mouth to make walrus fangs is not taboo.[-]
- shermantanktop 2 hours agoDon’t go to Chinese food with a drummer. It’s just maddening.
- RIMR 6 hours agoI'm betting Kuwaebashi covers that.
- vunderba 5 hours agoWhen I first moved to Taiwan and was just getting a handle on Chinese, I asked a waiter "請給我一個筷子" - not yet being familiar with proper measure words.
The waiter (who had a bit of a sense of humor) brought me exactly ONE chopstick. I laughed and repeated 請給我另一個筷子 (Please give me another chopstick) and he brought out another one.
Of course later my friend told me that I should have used 雙 to indicate I wanted a "pair" of chopsticks.
- AftHurrahWinch 11 hours agoPhew, I'm glad "inserting them into your nostrils and braying like a walrus" isn't on the list.[-]
- minikomi 9 hours agoI think it's number 9 in the list
- sudo_cowsay 10 hours agosacrilegious lol
- unsignedint 11 hours agoThe article does a good job calling out the more serious offenses, although I’d personally argue that nigiribashi is just as bad as the other two. Most Japanese people would probably react with a bit of shock to those.
That said, chopstick etiquette is definitely evolving. Something like chobujubashi isn’t enforced as strictly anymore, especially with more awareness around left-handed users. Kaeshibashi, on the other hand, is becoming more common, and in some social circles, not doing it can actually come across as rude.
[-]- helterskelter 10 hours ago> Kaeshibashi, on the other hand, is becoming more common, and in some social circles, not doing it can actually come across as rude.
I was always under the impression this was the polite thing to do.
- bikesharing 11 hours ago[dead]
- Sprotch 10 hours ago[flagged]
- rendaw 5 hours agoHashibashi - does this mean it's okay to place the chopsticks across the top if it's not to show you're finished? I heard that was okay as long as you align them not to point at another person (not across the table). If there's no chopstick rest I'm not sure where else you're supposed to put your chopsticks.
Also I'm not sure how you're supposed to eat e.g. fried rice without yokobashi or kakibashi.
Also! I thought kaeshibashi was a good thing. I've definitely seen people do that at parties.
- zeristor 29 minutes agoThis raises the question of what are the funeral rites.
They piece through the ashes of a cremation and pass them between each other?
I know the modern style of conveyor belt cremation is a bit impersonal.
It’ll take me a while to process this.
- mijoharas 11 hours agoFor anyone else curious after reading "-bashi" 40 times:
(Not gonna direct quote because the damn site doesn't allow copy-pasting so they don't get a link, paraphrased):
Kirai-bashi would be literally translated to "dislike-chopsticks" and means bad chopstick table-manners. Hashi is chopsticks and bashi is the voiced form of it.
So the bashi suffix/word on the end of all of these just means chopsticks it seems.
[-]- refactor_master 9 hours agoTo add to this, voicing is also a way for Japanese words to become more “coherent”, the same way you write “dislike-chopsticks” as one combined noun, and not “dislike chopsticks”.[-]
- adrian_b 2 hours agoSomeone downvoted this, but the poster is correct, so there was absolutely no reason for downvoting.
Rendaku, i.e. the voicing of the initial consonant, happens in the native Japanese words (i.e. not in the Japanese words of Chinese origin), in most cases when they are a part of a compound word and they are not the initial word. This serves indeed to distinguish a sequence of unrelated words from a compound word.
There are exceptions when rendaku does not happen, but typically whenever a word like hashi becomes a part of a compound word it will be voiced to -bashi.
"H" is a special case among the consonants, because in old Japanese it was pronounced as "p", which is why it is voiced as "b". Later, in initial positions the pronunciation was changed to "f" and even later the pronunciation was changed to "h". The "f" pronunciation has been retained only before "u", like in Fuji. In non initial positions, the original "p" has become later "v" and even later "w".
These pronunciation changes happened after the creation of the hiragana and katakana syllabaries, so they were not reflected in writing. The orthographic reform that was forced after WWII has brought the written form of the words closer to the pronunciation, e.g. by writing consistently "w" where it is pronounced so. Before WWII, many words written now with "-wa-" were still written with "-ha-", a spelling that has been preserved now only in the particle "wa" (like the spelling corresponding to the old pronunciation "wo" has been preserved for the particle "o").
While the Japanese orthographic reform had some positive effects, in simplifying a little the Japanese writing, it also had the effect that for someone who knows only the modern written Japanese it is difficult to read the Japanese books published before WWII, where many different kanji are used and also their hiragana transcriptions are different.
I assume that this was actually an effect intended by the American occupation forces, as a similar policy was applied by the Russians in all the territories of the Soviet Union (except the Baltic countries), where they forced the native populations to change their writing systems to the Cyrillic alphabet, in order to make difficult for the younger generations to read anything dating from before the Russian occupation.
- mjamesaustin 12 hours agoI was shocked to find it's a faux pas to rub disposable chopsticks to remove potential splinters. I was taught this is what you're supposed to do with disposable chopsticks.[-]
- raised_by_foxes 12 hours agoIt's rude if it's a nice establishment, as it conveys your belief that the chopsticks are of low quality. So that's what you're signaling with that. If everyone already knows they are cheap (e.g. disposable), then have at it.[-]
- triceratops 11 hours agoIf a nice establishment has splintery chopsticks maybe they should look in the mirror.[-]
- rtpg 16 minutes agoI go to your house to have food. You give me a fork and knife. I go to your kitchen to wash the fork and knife for good measure.
- helterskelter 10 hours agoProbably it's rude to do it automatically with every pair of disposable chopsticks and not just the crappy ones.
- dmit 12 hours agoI once witnessed a local admonish another (younger) local for exactly that at a bar. He replied with a bratty "Not my fault they're using crappy chopsticks..."
- tanjtanjtanj 8 hours agoI ate at a very nice restaurant (think The Menu) in Kagaonsen last week and the main course was served with lacquered chopsticks but another course was served with disposable chopsticks and the waiter actually broke them and rubbed them together for me. I think the social faux pas is making a show of doing it.[-]
- fwipsy 5 hours agoPerhaps they did that because they knew some people would be too polite to?
- radley 11 hours agoI agree. I always have to do it, except at the rare restaurants. Not just splinters, but rough edges too.
- WorldPeas 12 hours agoright? What's the right way? I don't want splinters on the most sensitive surface in my body..[-]
- cthalupa 11 hours agoThe splinters come from where they break apart and there's not really any reason to have that part of the chopsticks touching your skin.
But you move away from break apart disposable chopsticks in Japan long before you get to high etiquette dining. In my experience, basically every restaurant in Japan that isn't of, like, fast food tier, provides actual chopsticks instead of disposable ones.
[-]- waffletower 11 hours agoI had mostly disposables but they were actually lathed wood. The crude rectangular cut chopsticks are terrible -- usually not for splinters, but they often break imperfectly, leaving you with two sticks with different lengths.[-]
- floren 10 hours agoFor those cheap chopsticks, I've found the best way to break them is to grasp them at the very tips, then move your two hands away from each other briskly without twisting, just straight apart. I haven't had many break badly since I started doing this.
- nvader 2 hours ago> To turn the chopsticks around when serving food so that the tips of the chopsticks that have touched one’s mouth do not touch the food.
Huh, this is something that I did consistently, believing it to be good etiquette.
[-]- perlgeek 8 minutes agoSomewhere on the page they mentioned that there are separate serving chopsticks. Turning the eating chopsticks around is probably more normal when there aren't separate ones.
- perdomon 11 hours agoSome of these sound just as made-up as a lot of Western dining "rules." Maybe someone more familiar with the culture can say whether or not these are true faux pas in an everyday ramen shop or similar.[-]
- nihonde 3 hours agoNo one is going to get mad at you for violating these, but they will judge you. If you're trying to get along with a person from a proper Japanese family, you'll fail unless you know all of these and more. For example, placing bowls/plates on the table too hard, or not trying hard enough to pay the bill, not serving others, pouring your own drink...the list goes on and on. Most people think these things are silly, but some absolutely do not and will treat you accordingly if you're making these mistakes. Whether or not you care is up to you and the situation. This is all also true in almost every other culture, by the way.
- wahnfrieden 10 hours agoThey’re not fake but some are not followed by everyone outside of formal situations[-]
- galangalalgol 10 hours agoI always do the splinter thing. I thought that was normal. If the place has disposable chopsticks it isn't the sort of place etiquette matters is it?[-]
- kdheiwns 6 hours agoEven expensive restaurants in Japan use disposable chopsticks. And you only get splinters on your chopsticks because you're rubbing them in your hands and making pieces break off.
In all my decades of using chopsticks, I've never had a splinter poke me. But I've seen people rub their chopsticks then complain about splinters.
[-]- cthalupa 5 hours agoI was really confused by this because I've spent about 6 months of my life in Tokyo and got very very very few disposable chopsticks at restaurants a tier above, like, shokken ramen shops.
But the internet informs me that the composite chopsticks that I am used to seeing went away during covid and now disposable wooden chopsticks are the norm.
[-]- rtpg 10 minutes agoI don't exactly know the system for which restaurants pull out of the disposable chopsticks but I think that for example "normal" tempura, katsudon, or like soba restaurants will tend to be those.
I almost associate the cheapo reusable plastic chopsticks with some food courts or Matsuya at this point.
- galangalalgol 5 hours agoThere are the ones that are partly rounded and only attached for a cm or so at the top. They are fine. Then there are the square ones that are attached for half or more of the length and don't always break apart cleanly. They have never poked me, but they have shed bits into my food before that I had to pick out. I will stop cleaning up the ones that don't actually need it. I didn't realize it was offensive.
- dbcurtis 9 hours agohe he... is that the equivalent of when I was a kid we differentiated by "drive-in", "paper-napkin restaurant" and "cloth-napkin restaurant" in order of how much trouble you would be in if you embarrassed your parents.
- emursebrian 12 hours agoMost of these are common sense. As a tourist foreigner, you also aren't expected to know all the customs but it's appreciated when you try. The one about which direction to NOT point the chopsticks in was new to me. If you just watch what other people are doing, then try to do the same thing, you're probably on the right track.
Related to eating, one pro-tip I got from a local is that when you're ready to close your tab or get your check at a bar or restaurant, you can make a small X with your index fingers.
Really useful in a busy bar!
[-]- 0x3f 12 hours ago> Most of these are common sense.
A lot of them are not common sense at all. Even the 'serious' ones require cultural knowledge to understand. Only a subset of the rest would be un-ideal across cultures, which is what I would use to measure 'common sense'.
It's like how in some asian cultures it's rude to bring the bowl closer to you by lifting it off the table, and in others it's the opposite. And of course there's some just-so story for why, that seems to make sense if you don't know about the opposing just-so story.
Things like that aren't what I'd call common sense.
[-]- morkalork 11 hours agoA bunch of the common sense ones, like not pointing at someone with your ustensiles, are the same in western etiquette.[-]
- Sprotch 10 hours agoIt’s not western etiquette and makes no sense to me[-]
- ahhhhnoooo 10 hours agoUsing your fork, knife, or spoon to point at a person is absolutely considered rude. Gesturing with utensils likewise (because you can shower others with cast off detritus.)
A quick Google search will turn up hundreds of results corroborating this.
[-]- nayroclade 8 hours agoOr just consider the “asshole dinner guest” trope that appears in so many TV shows and movies. They will always be talking too loudly and gesticulating/pointing with their cutlery.
- aidenn0 9 hours ago1. I have seen Japanese people do approximately half of the things on the list.
2. The two listed as "serious" are related to Japanese funerary rites, and so are clearly culturally specific.
3. Several of the things listed are perfectly acceptable in other chopstick-using cultures. Many are also perfectly acceptable to do with a fork and/or knife in cultures that use forks and knives. I think I would go so far as to say that there is not a single thing on there for which it would be widely considered rude to do in all cultures.
[-]- rtpg 14 minutes ago> 1. I have seen Japanese people do approximately half of the things on the list.
There are people in Japan who are rude or who do not have as good manners or etiquette when they are eating alone!
If everyone followed all manners all the times they wouldn't really be encoded woould they?
- SpecialistK 11 hours ago> The one about which direction to NOT point the chopsticks in was new to me.
I suspect it mostly affects left handed people.
- frereubu 11 hours ago> こじ箸 Kojibashi (also known as ほじり箸 hojiribashi)
> To use the chopsticks to pick something out from near the bottom of the dish.
I think there must be some bits that are lost in translation for some of these. This makes it sound like you can't eat all of the food in a bowl with your chopsticks.
[-]- FartyMcFarter 11 hours agoMaybe it means that you're digging up food that is under other food?[-]
- frereubu 11 hours agoYeah, could be - that's kind of what I mean in terms of being lost in translation. It feels like there's missing information / context in quite a few of them.
Edit: In fact I think you're completely right - "picking out" something near the bottom of the dish does suggest that.
[-]- themaninthedark 11 hours agoLet me check but I think it refers to a shared dish; at an izakaiya you often order a bunch of shared food plates and then serve yourself from them.
It is definitely rude to use chopsticks that you just put in your mouth to go rooting around for something in those. You are supposed to take from the top and ideally turn them around using the back end. Some people frown on using the back ends however as it may have been touched by your hand...
Edit add: It means to dig food out, either from your own dish or a shared one. Like mixing the food up to look for something you like in it.
[-]- irishcoffee 11 hours ago返し箸 Kaeshibashi (also known as 逆さ箸 sakasabashi)
To turn the chopsticks around when serving food so that the tips of the chopsticks that have touched one’s mouth do not touch the food.
- univerio 11 hours agoI think just written in an ambiguous way: "dish" here refers to the food contained in the vessel and not the vessel itself.
- bigwheels 11 hours agoIt's like core-ing out the goody bits from an otherwise bland pint of ice cream. Who would ever do such a disgusting and selfish thing? :-0
- mmsc 6 hours ago
I don't know about Japan, but everybody does this in Taiwan.こすり箸 Kosuribashi: To rub waribashi (disposable chopsticks) together to remove splinters.[-] - tempodox 2 hours agoHighly instructive, and some quite surprising to me as a gaijin.
> To take the tips of the chopsticks in one’s mouth.
Sometimes I'm having a hard time avoiding that. Apparently I need more practice.
[-]- derefr 57 minutes agoI think that one refers to doing so when there is no food on the chopsticks. Picture tapping the chopsticks against your lips to show you’re thinking, if conversing while eating. The overarching rule being that you should put the chopsticks down whenever you’re not in the middle of picking up/moving food with them.
(Unless you want to come off as imitating a Rakugo storyteller. If you do, then go ahead and use them as a talking prop. But maybe make it clear that you’re not eating with those ones, so people don’t worry you’ll flick sauce at them!)
- econ 4 hours agoI once see someone's chopsticks taken away from them and replaced with a knife and fork. I've always wondered what they did wrong. Now I see they probably covered half this list. Haha
- tomcam 1 hour agoI married an Asian woman I met at work. Our boss called me in to ask if I was serious about marrying her and I said yes. He asked if I wanted any advice and I sincerely answered that I did. Our marriage was necessarily disruptive because it meant that she would also defect. That would cause problems up and down the management chain. His advice was for me to learn how to use chopsticks. that’s it. Nothing else.
I spent months learning how to use them properly in secret and finally deployed my skills when I thought I was pretty good. She didn’t notice. I then realized she almost always used a fork. In high school and college their meals were always served hastily and the students always brought a fork or spoon. they would eat standing up and had maybe five minutes to get the job done. No time for chopsticks.
When her parents came out to visit us after we got married I frantically asked her advice about good chopstick etiquette. I very much did not wish to cause her to lose face. She didn’t give a flying fuck. I honestly think I married one of the freest spirits in Asia, which is not necessarily a compliment.
She said I was doing fine and literally refused to give me any feedback at all, incorrectly claiming she wasn’t even that good. In fact, I think she only started to resume using chopsticks because I ended up finding them useful and now far prefer them to silverware.
I ended up having to learn most of the customs by watching people in restaurants. Just learning how to set them down right took additional months because I noticed far too late that they set their chopsticks down in a sort of V shape which is much harder than one might expect. Also, I am left-handed, but taught myself to do it right handed on the theory of that would also help me not lose face in front of the in-laws. It turns out they are also highly unconventional and probably didn’t care about my chopstick use one way or the other.
When we had kids, I would learn that Asian children who don’t learn to use chopsticks represent another way to lose face. It results in titanic power struggles within the family and makes everyone miserable. It’s a little like forcing kids here in the USA to eat their vegetables. By this time I had learned of her disinterest, so neither of us bothered to teach them. All of our children naturally picked it up with no apparent effort, including one who is very severely developmentally disabled.
[-]- alisonatwork 42 minutes agoI feel like a lot of this is culture and class specific. I can't speak for Japan, but in China there are at least as many different levels of chopstick-using skill as anywhere in the west. Kids and elderly who can't pick up a peanut or a cherry tomato, people who find it entirely unproblematic to stab a slippery dumpling, people who think it's stupid to waste time trying to get fried rice into your mouth with chopsticks and just grab a spoon instead, people who dredge their way through the hotpot to find the treat they're looking for...
I often get the sense that foreigners getting stressed about (or feeling pride in) how well they use chopsticks is a weird kind of orientalism. Because, like, who cares if someone shows up in a western restaurant and uses a spoon instead of knife to saw through something, or grabs a big hunk with a fork and takes a bite, leaving the rest on the fork? Maybe you wouldn't do it if you were having dinner with the queen, but any other context nobody cares. I'm sure parents still try to teach their kids to eat polite way, and maybe even feel a bit embarrassed if their kids show themselves to be less well-behaved than the neighbors', but that's a universal thing so, eh.
- georgefrowny 5 hours agoChobukubashi would make being left-handed decidedly annoying.[-]
- musicale 5 hours agoOn the other hand (so to speak), European style (fork stays in left hand) is great for left-handers.
- locusofself 3 hours agoI did this once and was scolded by my date:
!!! (Serious) To stand chopsticks upright in a bowl of rice. This is taboo, as it is the way rice is presented as a Buddhist funeral offering.
- wagwang 12 hours agoAlways interesting to see the analogs of island vs continental culture when comparing UK <-> America and Japan <-> China. Seems like islanders, due to their reliance on trade, naturally get specialized and autistic about their craft so they can have a comparative advantage, and their obsessions carry over into stuffy traditional practices.[-]
- fsckboy 6 hours ago>Always interesting to see the analogs of island vs continental culture when comparing UK <-> America and Japan <-> China.
when America was settled/founded by Britains, etiquette had not been standardized in GB either so the differences are due to parallel development, not island vs continent. That probably holds even more for differences between Japan and China.
- 0x3f 11 hours agoI counter with the American swap-the-fork-hand-after-you-cut thing. Diabolical.[-]
- dugidugout 11 hours agoWould you mind sharing your insight? I'd be interested to hear!
- Sprotch 10 hours agoWhat stuffy traditional practices does the UK have?
- _spduchamp 12 hours agoWhat a coincidence... I was just in my backyard shed playing with my robot chopstick. https://youtu.be/BhBXliscj0I
- daemonologist 3 hours agoDid you also play Thrice today? (This was one of the daily questions.)
- koolba 10 hours ago> 移り箸 Utsuribashi (also known as 渡り箸 wataribashi)
> To keep putting the chopsticks into the same side dishes. It is proper etiquette to first eat rice, move on to eat from a side dish, eat rice again, and then eat from a different side dish.
So keto itself is a faux pas?
> 返し箸 Kaeshibashi (also known as 逆さ箸 sakasabashi)
> To turn the chopsticks around when serving food so that the tips of the chopsticks that have touched one’s mouth do not touch the food.
Ewww. I’d rather be rude than share germs.
[-]- tmathmeyer 10 hours ago>> To turn the chopsticks around when serving food so that the tips of the chopsticks that have touched one’s mouth do not touch the food.
> Ewww. I’d rather be rude than share germs.
I think this means you should use something other than your chopsticks to share food, and not just assume that "the back of my chopsticks are germ-free, I'll use that"
- jwrallie 8 hours agoYou will quickly learn the first one because if you keep eating the delicious side dishes you will be only left with large amounts of bland rice to eat last.[-]
- laughing_man 7 hours agoIt would be pretty irritating if someone in your dinner party ate the lion's share of the more flavorful food and left the rice for everyone else.
- wahnfrieden 10 hours agoKeto diet doesn’t exist in Japanese cuisine. If you’re going to a keto friendly place, it’s something trendy and contemporary so this traditional advice obviously doesn’t apply. It is not a faux-pas to eat non traditional / non Japanese cuisine.[-]
- sneak 7 hours agoKeto diet doesn’t exist in western cuisine either. It’s a niche thing in both places, and both places have specific single dishes without carbs.
- choonway 3 hours agoas a lifelong chopstick user, this article is for one of those fault finding crazies.
hold the chopstick however you like. so long as you don’t drop things unintentionally it’s fine.
- twodave 10 hours agoGlad to know I haven’t picked up any seriously bad habits, but how the heck do you keep the chopsticks aligned without tapping them somewhere?
Most of these seem related to health/sanitary practices/being considerate more than anything. Just avoiding contaminating what others are going to eat with your own utensils is an easy way to describe several of them.
[-]- cthalupa 9 hours agoYou can just slide them with your fingers, even one handed, and it's not like they need to be perfectly aligned.
But, yeah, I tap them to align them all the time, have seen Japanese people do it day in and day out. I've even done it in some fine dining places in Japan. No one yelled at me, but I am a gaijin, so...
- bigwheels 12 hours agoFascinating culture and raises numerous questions arising from my subsequent confusion:
1. > 返し箸 Kaeshibashi (also known as 逆さ箸 sakasabashi)
> To turn the chopsticks around when serving food so that the tips of the chopsticks that have touched one’s mouth do not touch the food.
Does this mean it is preferable to use the tips that may have touched mouth to then serve more food? Or is this considered fine because it's also taboo to touch the tips to your mouth? (which only a BARBARIAN would do!)
2. > こすり箸 Kosuribashi
> To rub waribashi (disposable chopsticks) together to remove splinters.
Just proceed to eat some splinters, then? What is the good etiquette way to handle low quality el-cheapo chopsticks?
---
I have been guilty of the above as well as:
Chigiribashi - Hold one chopstick in each hand and use them like a knife and fork to tear or cut food into smaller pieces.
Soroebashi - Hold chopsticks together and tap them on a dish or the top of the table to align the tips.
Namidabashi - Allow sauce or soup to drip from the tips of the chopsticks when eating. Namida means “tears.”
Nigiribashi - Grip both chopsticks in a fist.
Neburibashi - Lick the chopsticks.
Hashibashi - Place the chopsticks like a bridge across the top of a dish to show one is finished. Chopsticks should be placed on the hashioki (chopstick rest).
Furibashi - Shake off soup, sauce, or small bits of food from the tips of the chopsticks.
Mogibashi - Bite off and eat grains of rice that are stuck to the chopsticks.
Yokobashi - Line the chopsticks up together and use them like a spoon to scoop up food.
.. growing up my mom used to say, "What are you, raised by wolves!?" .. apparently, yes!
[-]- vitus 12 hours ago> Kaeshibashi
The preference is to use a separate pair of communal chopsticks that is not used directly for eating.
> Kosuribashi
I have heard that this one is because it's considered to be an insult implying that the chopsticks are low-quality. (That said, if your chopsticks are indeed low-quality, then avoiding splinters is probably preferable to then visibly plucking splinters out of your fingers.)
- 0x3f 11 hours ago> Just proceed to eat some splinters, then? What is the good etiquette way to handle low quality el-cheapo chopsticks?
Well first of all the chopsticks are joined at the non-eating end, typically. So the splinters would be bothering your fingers more than anything.
It's rude because it insults the host, in a way. Anywhere that would care about you doing it should not be giving you the cheap chopsticks in the first place. If you're in a place that gives you them, they probably don't care about you doing it.
[-]- sudo_cowsay 10 hours agoThere are steel chopsticks (though not really common <-- only in Korea).[-]
- scheme271 42 minutes agoThe metal chopsticks are pretty much only get used in Korea. The shape and material of the chopsticks varies by country so you can make a good guess as to where someone is from based on which chopsticks they use.
- moron4hire 11 hours agoI think it's important to point out that these are good manners for eating with Japanese people, not good manners for eating with chopsticks. There is no requirement to emulate Japanese eating manners if you're not in Japan and not anywhere near a person raised in Japanese cultur. There are other cultures that use chopsticks that do not necessarily have these manners.[-]
- cthalupa 9 hours agoThis is definitely true - but some of these are fairly universal, or at least that is my understanding. I believe the 'no sticking chopsticks upright in rice' one is shared between Japan, Korea, China, etc. for example - it looks like funerary incense/joss sticks in all three due to the shared aspects of their cultures, for example.
- wenc 11 hours agoThe disposable wooden chopsticks in Japan don’t splinter (they’re higher quality and cost more than the ones we have in the US).
That’s why you don’t need to rub to get rid of splinters.
[-]- reaperducer 11 hours agoThe disposable wooden chopsticks in Japan don’t splinter
If that was always true, there wouldn't be a word for it.
I've been given some pretty gnarly chopsticks at roadside places outside the main metropolitan areas.
- refactor_master 9 hours agoWell that certainly depends on the establishment. I’ve picked out plenty of splinters here in Japan.
- e-dant 9 hours agoSome of these I’ve been told are taboos in the opposite way. For example, the one about serving or taking food from the opposite end of the chopsticks, I was told, is polite. But here they say it is taboo. Maybe they meant it’s taboo not to do that?[-]
- sneak 7 hours agoYes, it’s weirdly ambiguous. But even that is performative, as you’re still using an unsanitary part - the part that has touched your hand vs the part that has touched your lips.
- zippyman55 7 hours agoI have always wondered when I used the pair of chopsticks to push food on my fork, if there was a name for my type.
- mmooss 11 hours ago> To place one’s mouth against the side of a dish and push food in with the chopsticks.
I've seen people eat noodles and broth (e.g., ramen) like that a million times? What am I missing? How do you properly eat noodles and broth?
[-]- decimalenough 11 hours agoIt's not a taboo, it's just not considered good manners in formal contexts.
But it's fast and efficient, which is why people do it anyway.
[-] - triceratops 11 hours agoSlurp the noodles and drink the broth?
- waffletower 11 hours agoThat taboo is simply wrong in many contexts. Watch Tampopo after reading this and it can correct for a lot.
- hatthew 11 hours agoI'm curious for a native's opinion on how important these are. The etiquette I was taught growing up in the US is a mix of:
Of these several dozen "rules" for chopsticks, how many actually fall into the last category of things that actually matter?- several things that are often quoted as good etiquette but nobody follows (elbows off the table, correct order of dishes) - lots of things that are customary but nobody cares if you don't follow it (napkin on lap, placement of silverware) - only a few things that actually matter and would be considered rude by normal people (don't touch shared food with used silverware, keep your mouth closed while chewing)[-]- usagisushi 10 minutes agoNative here. I'd say only about 6 out of the 47 listed actually matter (Awasebashi, Urabashi, Kamibashi, Jikabashi, Tatebashi, and Neburibashi).
Most of these are only for formal settings. Honestly, I haven't even heard of some of them. Aside from Tatebashi (sticking chopsticks in rice), they’re mostly avoided for hygiene reasons. As for Nigiribashi (clutching them in a fist), it just looks a bit strange for an adult to do.
- jwrallie 8 hours agoPeople told me to avoid placing chopsticks upwards in a bowl before I even went to Japan so that is the only one I’d keep in mind.
Given how many of these are clever tricks that I learned from seeing Japanese people eat, like aligning the chopsticks quickly in a plate or cleaning waribashi from splinters by rubbing them together, I’d not take all of these seriously, but it’s cool to know nonetheless.
- cthalupa 9 hours agoHonestly, I don't even really see 'don't touch shared food with used silverware' followed if a place doesn't provide specific serving utensils.[-]
- hatthew 9 hours agoYeah it's a pretty flexible rule, but it's at least something to think about, unlike a lot of other "rules" that you're allowed to completely disregard for your entire life. I probably was too strict in describing that last bullet point.
- dibujaleojos 12 hours agoHoly cow! I thought there was going to be a list of 8 of them... There's like 40![-]
- Fricken 11 hours agoAnd I thought the Inuit had a lot of words for snow.
I wonder how many of these words a typical Japanese person can list off the top of their head.
- waffletower 11 hours agoI lived in Japan for nearly 6 years and found that concern for faux pas such as these for hashi (chopsticks) are way way overblown. I used at least one thousand disposable pairs of chopsticks in Japan and never had the desire to smooth them -- they are higher quality than Panda Express offerings. I knew about this "taboo" prior to arrival and it was simply irrelevant. Avoid the obvious symbolic references to makura gohan (bowl of rice offering to the deceased) at the end of your meal and you are probably golden. If you have kids in Japan, gaijin passing food with chopsticks to their children in a restaurant is going to be seen in a neutral or even sympathetic light. The Japanese may silently judge but they rarely sneer or harass. If you spend a lot of time with modern Japanese families you might be surprised to discover Western stereotypes of Japanese taboos are sometimes outdated and even incorrect. They are very aware that foreigners will not understand all of their customs, and many of those customs have decreasing importance as their culture evolves.[-]
- decimalenough 11 hours agoPassing food by placing it directly on someone else's plate or bowl is fine. The taboo is specifically about two people holding onto the same thing at the same tine with chopsticks, the way cremated bone fragments are placed into the urn at kotsuage.
Other than that, I agree. It's kind of like trying to apply Emily Post's etiquette to TV dinners: many of these "rules" would be viewed as prissy by Japanese and some (eg. giving your miso soup a swirl with your chopsticks before drinking) are very, very commonly ignored.
[-]- fsckboy 6 hours ago>holding onto the same thing at the same tine
i see what you did there
- dekhn 11 hours agoThe main one for me is not putting your chopsticks on top of the bowl rim or putting the chopsticks sticking up from the rice. Those are both intuitive natural actions for me. In the US I rarely see chopstick rests so I'm always wonderting what to do with them when I'm not using them.
- midtake 11 hours ago> こすり箸 Kosuribashi
> To rub waribashi (disposable chopsticks) together to remove splinters.
Stopped reading there. If you're handing me crappy chopsticks to eat with I am rubbing them together first.
[-]- weedhopper 10 hours agoExactly, too many times have i heard from some snob not to rub them, who later had to pull a splinter out of their finger.
- morkalork 11 hours agoNamidabashi and Furibashi seem like a contradiction
- kazinator 8 hours agoIf they serve me slop with only a few good bits, I'm doing saguribashi.
- shablulman 12 hours ago[dead]